<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bob Ashmore:
<B>From Wikipedia, for the purpose of edification and clarification:
"Dim Mak or "Touch Point" is said by its adherents to train attacks on pressure points and meridians in some styles of Chinese martial arts to kill, incapacitate, or otherwise control an opponent.
Traditional Chinese medicine theory is based on the idea that specific pathway lines called meridians exist on the human body, along which are found many hundreds of acupressure points. Acupuncture is the most well known use of the meridian system. Pressing, seizing or striking these points (or combinations of points) with specific intent and at certain angles can result in either heightening or diminishing qi circulation in the body, according to this theory.
Effects are said to range between weakening an opponent, to deadening limbs or organ systems, to slowing bodily functions to the point of death.
Many modern martial artists consider the legends of Dim Mak to be a wuxia fiction. Others assert that it was a form of sorcery, at one point, but is now a lost art. Yet others claim to teach it in the martial syllabus of their schools."
Dim mak is a skill inside of chinese martial arts, not the lynchpin of any one of them. It's presence, or lack thereof, does not make or break Yang style Tai Chi Chuans authenticity, any more or less than it would make or break Wing Chun.
I only know of it from my general learning of Chinese martial arts, it has not been "taught" to me as part of my Yang style training.
That said, what is so hard about it? Anyone can perform "Dim mak", with or without training in Chinese martial arts.
You locate an accupoint, you strike it if you can. That's the entire enchilada.
No big deal, really.
It's a sub-system, not the be all and end all, of not only Yang style Tai Chi Chuan but any martial art.
We can no more use Dim Mak as the proof for the question "is Yang Cheng Fu Tai Chi Chuan 'real' Yang style" than we could use Chin Na or silk reeling in the same context.
Would I choose to strike an accupoint? Certainly, but only if it were what gave me the advantage.
Can I do that using Yang Cheng Fu style Tai Chi Chuan principles? Of course, but I don't HAVE to.
First I believe the actual dim mak (and much of the dim mak stuff is legend) in Mandarin it is dian xue but that is really neither here nor there.
I agree that it is a subsystem of a lot of CMA styles. However it would and does take a lot of training to be able to hit an acupuncture point during a fight. And if it were no big deal to learn the points the Chinese would not train their TCM docs so long in just in acupuncture points.
Also it depends on how hard you hit sometimes. You may know a great point but if you do not press hard enough it does nothing. The mantis styles are big on point attacks and they train a long time to become proficient at it.
But the question I guess it did Chengfu remove Dim Mak from Yang style?
Well I would look to Chen. How much pressure point training is there in Chen?
There is a lot of qinna but I do not see that much dian xue, although I only did a little more than 2 years in Chen I do not remember much training in pressure point attacks. But I suppose Luchan could have added some to Yang style after he learned Chen.
In Xingyi we have a Phoenix eye punch that is used for attacking specific points, but it is only a part of Xingyi and you can be very effective without it. But I do not remember any such punch in Chen style, which Yang comes from, but then again I only trained Chen for a little over 2 years and then found myself in Yang.
And then the next question is Yang style from Yang Chengfu real Yang style? Well since it is all we really have and the Yang family teaches it I would have to say yes.