Scotch-Irish-L ArchivesArchiver > Scotch-Irish > 1998-06 > 0898396129
From: Maggie Phillips <>
Subject: Re: Sample/Semple
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 1998 22:28:49 -0400
linda Merle wrote:
> Hi Maggie,
> >If the Scotch-Irish weren't considered Irish, what where they?
> They came from Ireland, but due to the history of racial conflict there,
> like to think of themselves as Irish. The Scots were about the only group to
> not assimulate into "Irishness" -- the English, including the Cromwellean
> soldiers, did. The Scots were close enough to Scotland to retain close ties.
> And since they were denied access to all institutions of higher education,
> like Trinity, because they were Presbyterians, they sent their children back
> for education.
> >During what time frame was the migration from Ulster to the USA?
> Generally the 18th century with the first ships coming in 1718 and three
> large waves. However people are still arriving. And before that many were
> sent off by Cromwell to the West Indies.
> However if you read "Albion's Seed" by Fischer, he maintains that many who
> think they are Scots-irish had ancestors who emigrated directly from the
> of Scotland and England. No one agrees with him, that I've read. One of the
> difficulties is that many border folk fled to Ireland to avoid James I/VI's
> of the borders, so you have the same surnames in both places. Only lots of
> genealogical work will determine the truth.
> The irony is if you really are Irish you can probably trace your family back
> a lot farther than if you are Scots. The Irish have far better records than
> the Scots
> and because the English were constantly attempting to dis-enfranchise
> the disloyal and give their land to the loyal and English -- or Scottish --
> they kept
> scrupulus records of who had what land what their ancestory was. And many of
> the Irish genealogies (Irish history is family history) were saved for us
> by the
> writers or compilers of the Four Annals and the other great books of the
> nation. They were the last of the great seanchies. Consequently the Irish have
> the oldest literature and the longest genealogies in Europe.
> Depending on the family and the location you can do okay though. Someone
> traced one English side of my family (Ulster Scots gg grandad married Englsih
> girl in USA) , in 1900 back to around 860 -- when the first Viking ships
> over in Kent. These ancestors were Swedish. They settled on Thanet and got
> baptised and became scribes. We've been going down hill since the Tudor era,
> when one married the sister of Henry VIII's admiral and one was a lady in
> to Eliz I. Though one was a general under Cromwell (but stayed in England). He
> broke the glass in Canterbury and was so awful his parishioners tried to
> bribe him
> into going away by promising to pay his stipend if he did. He was afraid of
> and always wore blue, so he is known as "Blue Dick Culmer". History does get
> its revenge!! His direct descendents moved posthaste to Holland after the
> restoration, which is good! We don't miss them ourselves.
> Hope this helps,
> :omda <er;e , oops Linda Merle
Thanks! You're the best!