Andrew108 wrote: Reality is both material and non-material. Just as sentience is both material and non-material. Belief in beings that are non-material only, is a belief. Nothing more. There is no proof.
However, it is important to consider that in this case we are actually making a comparative analysis.
We are trying to evaluate whether such as thing as
a "non-material being" (undefined *
is in some sense "real" in the same way that one considers oneself to be real
In other words,
the disbeliever is saying "non material being X
as real as I am am"
and the believer is saying "non material being X is
as real as I am am"
...and in both instances, the reality of the one (who is believing or not believing) is taken for granted as substantial,
as though an actual self exists that one is now comparing with "non material being X
"non material being" is undefined. A text might give a description, but beyond that, anything can be considered. A non-material being might be a ghost or a yidam or a Dharma protector, or whatever. This ambiguity works in favor of the materialist, because even the believer in non-material beings still regards the reality of non-material beings in the context of that which can be measured and specifically identified: the "material being". The believer still asserts that "the non-material being is just as real as (or perhaps even more real than) I am"
Or, if one takes into consideration the assertion that nothing actually arises that can truly be called a "being" (whether material or not), then the statement that "non material beings do not exist" is true, but it is also true that the "material" person making the statement has no true existence either.
We also have to take into consideration the idea that while the material of a "material being" (e.g., the carbon of a carbon-based life form) can be said to occur, and can be regarded as "real" within a relative context, the awareness or consciousness specifically associated with that "material being" is not, in itself material, just as a saxophone is made of a material (brass), but the sound waves it emits have no material substance.
In that light, even a "material being" ( if defined as the thoughts and sensations, and sense of identity associated with it ) has no material reality. We speak of "my body" as a possessive concept. We don't say, "My body's body" or "my body's hair needs a hair cut". The "being" is the abstract concept of a self who we imagine "owns" the material body.
Thus, the safest statement one can make is: "non-material beings are no more real than I am"
. . .