The discoveries made by the new archaeology discredited a great exodus in the 13th century BC. Moses could not have led the Hebrews out of Egypt into the Promised Land, for the good reason that the latter was Egyptian territory at the time. And there is no trace of either a slave revolt against the pharaonic empire or of a sudden conquest of Canaan by outsiders.
2. I RESPECT you, women of the wall. keep it UP, teach a
LESSON of FAITH to those who SPIT on women in buses.
Big Mouth ,
On the face
3. @1 - "new archeologists" dating dangles from a single thread
which was discredited long ago. Keep up. The yetziah (exodus) was in the BCE 15th century (ca. 1453).
Now, you explain why Pharoah Hat-shepset's son worked so hard at erasing the history of her reign, exactly at that time, from the wall at Karnack.
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,
4. V masks for Purim unity at the Kotel
V masks for Purim ,
Jewish Spring Israel
5. Totally infintile article. these people are pathetic bafoons
This is full of lies. Firstly, the legislation concerning personal conduct at holy sites pre-dates Rabbi Rabinowich's tenure.
Secondly, the women of the wall are arrested not for wearing tallitot per se, but for breaking the law, and also for breaking a 'women of the wall' specifc court order.
7. "Women Of The Wall", Read This Response...
Men, not women, prayed to the first 'Golden Calf'. Therefore, the responsibility of men, NOT of women, is to put on teffilin (phylacteries) and to have a minyin, (quorum).
Men do not have menstrual cycles, and as such, regardless of your contemporary perspective, are not spiritually and in another sense physically impure to touch the Torah.
The responsibilities of men and women are different. It does not lessen the value of the mitsvot (deeds), which are performed by women, such as lighting candles for Shabbat. equality of the sexes in Judaism, as far as deeds to be performed are different but of equal value. Women's liberation in our secular, politically-correct secular world seems to be a fait accomplis, but if you want to change Judaism for your convenience in the sense of inadequacies you perceive, then it is no longer Judaism. Orthodox means 'correct', anything else is a perverted derivative contrived for convenience and is of itself improper and however it offers you comfort at your spiritual level, it does not meet the standards passed down from Moshe and the adherents of Torah then or now.
Robert Blum ,
New Albany, USA
8. Celebration of an imagined pogrom by Jews.
Of course there was never an Esther, a Mordechai, etc., etc., but there was a legend which should have been erased from memory. The legend tells of events which culminated with Jews conducting a pogrom of Persians. What a bunch of nonsense, even though the idea of a carnival once a year is a good one. So, let there be a carnival, maybe in July or August, so that the parade can be fun with skimpy clothes worn by all.
9. Ovadia Said walking between 2 ladies is like walking between
This is judaism.
10. Purim at the wall
Praying to a wall is like Catholics praying to statues of Mary and false Idols. it is against God' law. Just saying. bob nz
11. To #1
BAM! You got told by #3 son. If you are going to quote scholarly sources make sure they are legitimate scholarly sources and not just debunked facts to sell your untrue story of the past. BAM! You got told again.
12. Women At the Wall For Prayer
We were in Jerusalem in 1979 and 1980. Women were allowed to pray at the Wall in their own area. We cannot fathom why the women are not allowed to pray there now. What in the world is their restriction? I remember that they had their own area for prayer at the wall. What has changed? G-d will deal with those who made such a change.
Israel has so many problems. All they need now are rich Jewish liberal women going there to create more problems.
Brian Kent ,
14. Show Some respect to our holy places
These women are free to practice whatever religion they are practicing however they want, but they cannot practice it anywhere they want. Just like I would not eat steak at a Hindu temple, or walk with my shoes in a Mosque, or go naked in a Church, one does not cross dress at the Kotel.
Show some respect.
Chaim Ben Kahan ,
15. #9 Show me a source
Before you (mis)quote please provide a source.
The idea of a man walking between two women is the same as a woman walking between two men!
Tractate Haroyat 13b, Babylonian Talmud.
Why don't you research the facts first before spewing the hate-filled demagogy.
16. #3 early exodus
The proponents of a 13th century BC (“late”) Exodus believe their position is strengthened by the claim that there is little or no archaeological evidence for the Israelite presence in Canaan during the 15th century BC.
Woman are allowed to pray. These ones want to pray wearing traditional men's clothing (forbidden clearly in the Torah) and in a way forbidden in orthodox synagogues.
18. Honesty at last
At last, honesty from Women of the Wall: there movement has nothing to do with serving G-d, and everything to do with ending what they consider "patriarchal authority". Their donning to talit and tefillin, their reading from Sefer Torah and Megillot, are not because they think G-d commanded them to do it;, but rather because they see men doing it, and because they want to upset Jews -- men or women - who believe in Torah.
ahad ha'amoratsim ,
19. Women of the wall are clowns (end)
20. #3 BCE 15th Century Yetziah (Exodus)
#1 point comes after you understand the following.
2. You're guilty of the logical fallacy of petitio principii (circular reasoning). Agenda: The Jews didn't appear in Canaan until BCE 13th century, THEREFORE all evidence that may suggest otherwise must be interpreted (some other explanation, denying their existence) in accordance with their non-appearance in Canaan until BCE 13th century, THEREFORE there is no evidence of Jews in Canaan before the 13th century, THEREFORE the Exodus didn't happen before BCE 13th century. From a scientific standpoint, this old school, arts major, Indiana Jones mentality is farcical.
3. Lack of evidence is NOT negative evidence. More often, it's a fine indicator that the investigator hasn't been looking for the right things, has been looking in the wrong places, or has been "interpreting" data with an agenda that denies the evidence.
Old school archeologists have always been art students, with arts degrees. There's a new school who have advanced degrees in the sciences: physics, chemistry, electronics, math, geology and biology. They are a lot more careful, logical and analytical -- and far less inclined to buy into the old school routine of assuming, jumping to conclusions, exaggerating and overstating their interpretations.
1. But the major thing is that your agenda still refuses to deal with the start point: why the son of Pharaoh Hat-shepset, and only after 20 years had passed since her reign, he made a massive effort to erase the events of her reign from Egyptian history on the wall of Karnack. Deal with it instead of continuing to change the subject and chase logical fallacies for your, and their, misojudaic agenda.
ynet's refusal to publish posts make any intelligent discussion like herding sparrows. Rather than continuing the discussion in this forum, I suggest you actuall deal with these things instead of, yet again, ignoring them and trying to change the subject.
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,
21. Women at the Wall
22. dating the Exodus
The dating of the Exodus has long been a source of controversy. The book of 1 Kings 6:1 gives what appears to be a clear historical marker for the end of the Israelite sojourn in Egypt: "In the 480th year after the Israelites came out of the land of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon's reign over Israel, in the month of Ziv, which is the second month, he began to build the house of the Lord." Biblical historians generally agree that Solomon, the son and successor of David came to the throne in about 962 B.C. If so, then the Exodus would have occurred in about 1438 B.C., based on the chronology of the 1 Kings passage.
That date does not fit with other biblical texts or with what is known of ancient Egyptian history. But the flaw is far from fatal. Sarna and others argue that the time span cited in 1 Kings -- 480 years -- should not be taken literally. "It is 12 generations of 40 years each," notes Sarna; 40 being "a rather conventional figure in the Bible," frequently used to connote a long period of time. Viewing the 1 Kings chronology in that light -- as primarily a theological statement rather than as "pure" history in the modern sense -- the Exodus can be placed in the 13th century, in the days of Ramses II, where it finds strong circumstantial support in the archaeological record.
thirdly, it wasn't strictly Pharoah's daughter cause woman related to the Pharoah (a title) were called Banot Pharoah and Pharoah's men called Bani Pharoah.