reply to post by IgnorantSquare
To answer your question, if the white cube's neighbors are different colors, the two white cubes would not be identical becuase its spatial-temporal
relations would not be the same.
As Wittgenstein says, "space, time, and color are forms of objects" (Tractatus 2.0251).
If we accept Wittgenstein's claim, then for two objects to have equal relational identities, the objects' surroundings must be the same distance
away, the same color, and exist at the same time.
Using this definition of identity (space, time, color) I can prove the possibility of two objects being identical.
Let's accept the existence of two mirror universes. A subject is attempting to prove that two spheres in mirror universes can be identical. In the
mirror universes, the spheres have the same relational identities, along with the same intrinsic and extrinsic properties. The subject would be
constrained by the fact that he can only percieve one of the two objects because you can't have two identical objects existing in the same
However, you also have to consider that there are two subjects, since there are mirror universes. If you tell the subject to percieve the sphere, you
are telling both versions of the subject. That brings up the question, which subject is the test subject? Is there a real subject and a mirror
subject? No, both subjects are equally "real." This means the two subjects are both percieving the same sphere at the same place at the same time,
and both of their perceptions are equally valid.
That means just by percieving one object, the subject is actually performing the act of percieving two objects by two subjects. Just simply by
percieving the object, the subject has proven that the spheres are identical.
I'm already starting to run through the counter-arguments to the claim I just made, one of them being I'm not using the word "identical"
Originally posted by Angle
A and B... are not the same... but IDENTICAL...
I really appreciate that you differentiate between "same" and "identical." This differentiation is key to accepting or denying the existence of
identical objects. Again, this is a problem of language, and I'm not sure I agree with you that "same" and "identical" have different meanings in
this context. If anything I see "same" as a weaker relation than "identical," but that is just based on its context in everyday use.