David Orange wrote:
However, my biggest point is that we can develop kokyu through the physical practice of rolling and falling. I teach students to release an unbroken stream of breath from the beginning of a roll until they are back on their feet again. And that breath must be of varying intensity at various points in the roll--for instance, when you're going over your shoulders: there is a tendency for the body to collapse at that point and increasing the force of the breath (using kokyu) you can maintain the structure of the body and not only not collapse, but roll more smoothly and silently.
In other words, we can learn how to use kokyu by using it as we roll--not just by feeling a master's technique. And when we learn to use kokyu to roll properly, we can transfer that ability to use it in techniques.
David, we're into another cross-purposes terminology thing here. "Kokyu", complete kokyu, does require some of the 'breath' stuff (in a way, but I don't want to get drawn into a needlessly complex discussion) in the way that you're using it. Remember my own preference for breaking "ki" down into 2 categories: the fascia/breath/pressure stuff and the mind-manipulated forces stuff. What you're talking about is an aspect of the fascia/breath/pressure stuff (although a limited area of it) and what Dan is talking about is the mind-manipulated forces part. True, you can't totally separate them, but to an extent you can certainly view them as separate aspects.
So the basic kokyu forces (the jin) are what Dan is talking about and that's different from what you're talking about.