Just like any group with an agenda, PLANS/Waldorf critics will produce half-truths, twist ideas and use provocative words the lead the reader to assume more than what is said. Being "sweet" faigning innocence, saying they are providing a "service" etc. These folks have something to sell just as much as Anthropods do.
Once again I will reiterate that I am not an anthroposophist.
(I am putting my comments in parentheses. isis)
Hello again, all!
I truly am sorry that this thread/topic has generated some hurt feelings;
( isis: are you really? or is this just bad PR
it was never my intention to personally insult anyone, and I sure hope I didn't! As I have said before, I remain very impressed with both with the fact that Mothering's moderators have allowed such free discourse to go on and with the fact that so many here have been willing to engage in it!
Sometime back, I mentioned that another former Waldorf parent and I composed a list of questions that we wished we had known enough to ask at the Waldorf schools...
Here goes! (Note that some are questions, and some are suggestions as to things to do, ask for, etc.)
* Ask to see mainlesson books from several elementary school grades, and from several children within the same class (on the same subject.) This way, it will become obvious that if the mainlesson books are almost identical (which they often are!), that the children are merely copying whatever the teacher
writes or draws from the blackboard.
(isis: in Waldorf schools, children create their own textbooks. If they were merely reading textbooks and copying questions, like other schools, would these textbooks not be even more identical?)
* Make sure to read the PLANS web site at www.waldorfcritics.org
and all it contains. Pay particular attention to the articles.
(isis: nice plug for PLANS)
* Do you believe in reincarnation? Does you want your child taught by a
system that is based -- pedagogically, as well as spiritually -- on a belief
(isis: are children taught reincarnation in Waldorf schools? NO. Are children taught Anthroposophy NO.)
* Do you understand Steiner's 7-year cycles of child development (in which
children below the age of 14 are not allowed to think abstractly
(isis: not "allowed" to think abstractly? What a goofy word to use. Do they insert wires into the brain or what? Come on.)
-- even if
they do so naturally?) Children below the age of 14, according to Steiner,
should not form independent thoughts or theories, but should instead learn
to trust the authority of the teacher and to think as he/she thinks.
* Do you believe that ALL technology is bad for kids? Sure, we all think
kids watch too much garbage on TV, and little kids shouldn't spend their
time staring at computers.
But if you ask, Waldorf teachers will tell you that computers are not
good for children because children cannot understand how computers work.
They will tell you that in the Waldorf high school, the students are then
old enough to learn to build a computer and to use one.
What they do NOT tell you is that they believe that the computer is
``AHRIMANIC’’ -- connected with the Anthroposophic ``god of darkness’’ --
(isis: maybe the PLANS website is the headquarters for this darkness. snicker.)
and can sap the child’s will and actually ``suck out the child’s soul.’’ Ask the teacher about Ahriman.
* Do you want your child to be strongly influenced by the same adult for
eight years? Do you understand that if your child develops a dislike for the
teacher, or if you find the teacher is not to your liking or approval, Steiner says that being with that teacher is the child's karma?
(isis: what happens to us is and also what we choose to do would be our karma. If you choose to leave the school, that also would be karma. The idea would be to strive to create good karma. This idea is not so wacky.)
Do you understand that if the teacher and child do not get on, your child will be referred to curative eurythmy (at an extra cost to you, often!) to work the situation out,
(isis: meanwhile the class teacher will be working hard on what within him/herself is contributing to the conflict or impasse. This would be the time for a child study, so the teacher could get a more realistic view of the child in question and to separate for his/her emotional turmoil)
and no, the child can't change teachers because the karma has to be worked out with the first teacher? (And besides, at most Waldorf schools, there is only one class for each grade.)
(isis: how can you change teachers if there is only one? Also, I have known several cases of K children changing classes, so it is not unheard of.)
* Do you know that the creation story your child will learn isn't even in
the same ballpark with the creationist one of the Christian fundamentalists,
despite the school saying it's "Christian-something-or-other"? Are you aware
that they will be taught that the creators of the world/universe are 11 or
12 spirits, a pantheistic "Elohim," and not a monotheistic "God?"
(isis: if you are concerned, study the bible better. Modern versions have simplified it. The word we have translated into "God" *is* plural. This is not a Steinerism.)
* Do you know that -- eventually -- your child will be taught some science
that is NOT the accepted science of the 21st century? Students in Waldorf
schools learn Steiner science -- which flies in the face of facts proven
again and again by numerous other famous scientists and thinkers, including
Albert Einstein and Isaac Newton.
At a Waldorf school, children learn, for instance that color comes from
the clash of darkness with light (a erroneous idea of Steiner’s based on
(isis: prove that it isn't.)
Are you aware that the foundation of this Steiner science is occult
spiritualism, not real science?
At Waldorf, students studying chemistry are taught that the four
elements are: earth, air, fire and water, which they learn correspond with
various signs of the Zodiac.
(isis: were you assuming from this that they are not taught the periodic tables? They are!)
They also learn that the human race first occupied Atlantis, which was destroyed by a flood.
(isis: have not heard this. Goofy but harmless, I have not heard of this being taught to Waldorf students!)
* Do you understand that Steiner's curriculum hasn't changed in more than75 years, doesn't take account of the earlier maturation of kids and that it's almost all based on spiritual science premises that Steiner made up ?
(isis: fair point. How much has Montessori changed? Just as a comparison...)
* Ask the school for a complete _written_ explanation of the curriculum, for all the grades at the school. It should be as detailed as your state's curriculum. Even if it's legallyallowably different, it should show the same rigor and depth. Ask specifically to see details of subjects called "zoology" and "botany," which often are comprised of Steiner science, and not accepted science.
(isis: fair enough)
* Ask the school for a complete _written_ explanation of how
Anthroposophy fits into the curriculum, and what things in the
curriculum -- such as late reading, no black crayons in the early years, no
stimulation of the intellect
(isis: are you saying they are not learning? I beg to differ!)
until post-puberty, Goethean science, etc. --
are based on Anthroposophy or spiritual science.
(isis: Inovators of educational movements can certainly base their methods on what they believe! I question the value of pouring beans into a bottle over and over again (Montessori) What kind of belief started that? Let methods be methods.)
Ask if there is any
modern educational research to back Steiner's specific educational theories
up. (There isn't.)
(isis: You or PLANS/Waldorfcritics would not be the ones to ask, now would you? To paraphrase alexander, you would not be the ones to trumpet the cause.)
* Ask the school for a complete _written_ explanation of
Steiner's child development model, in plain language, and for modern
scientific educational research to back this up. (There isn't any.) Ask for
an explanation of "The Four Temperments" and how each temperment relates to physical characteristics ("melancholic" children are usually tall and pale;
"cholerics" have a square jaw, etc.) Ask what modern research supports the
use of this "tool" that dates from before the Middle Ages. (There isn't
(isis: Why ask if it isn't there? Why not just read RS if you are so interested? The books are available in Waldorf school bookstores. This is no secret!)
* Ask the school for a complete _written_ policy statement on
parent/school relationships, and the school’s contractual agreement on
it: for instance, what happens if a parent or parents disagree with
something the school or teacher or curriculum does, and wants it changed or
wants his child not to partake in it? If you withdraw your child before the
end of the year, will you have to continue to pay tuition? (Check into
(isis: very fair)
* Ask for a _written_ statement regarding the use of Anthroposophical "child
studies" (or any other type of assessment of the child), requiring that it
divulge if speculation on the child's former life or lives is included,
either privately or formally; requiring that there be an agreed-to,
complete, written record of any assessments; requiring that parents have
the right to be present during such sessions, whether they involve the child
(isis: assesments that involve only faculty members do not by defenition include parents- parent/teacher conferences are for this purpose. Child studies are done to encourage teachers to be exercising their senses and intellect when regarding children. So they can realy *see* children and thereby know them and teach them better. It is not a child-evaluation)
That's it for the list made by my acquaintance. I would add a few more
* Ask for a faculty list that contains information about the credentials and
degrees obtained by each teacher. Pay attention to the wording of the
listings (if, indeed, there is such a list -- not all schools have them!) A
statement that a teacher "attended" a particular university or college does
not mean the teacher earned a degree. Carefully check out what the Waldorf
school teacher training programs involve -- which is mostly study of Steiner
(isis: it is not necessary that all teachers be college graduates or have teaching certificates. Many, many outside the Waldorf movement agree that a degree isn't the only or the best way of determining who is a good teacher. But if this point is important to you, fair enough go ahead and ask.)
* Are you aware that your child will be taught that fairies and gnomes
(isis: excuse me, most children believe in fairies and gnomes and are not taught in this regard. Fairies may be in the woods in the same way Santa comes down the chimmney. How subversive!)
and that many of the teachers (at least those who are
Anthroposophists) believe that these elemental beings are real, and even
more, are very important?
(isis: what's wrong with this? Can you prove that fairies don't exist?)
A good way to approach this topic without offending the teacher is to ask him or her to explain the importance of the "elemental beings."
* Are you aware that the famous Waldorf 'wet-on-wet" watercolor painting is
actually a spiritual science exercise, aimed at cultivating the child's
(isis: Oh my!! And there is no benefit whatsoever in young children painting and exploring colors. It should be BANNED! BTW who wouldn't benefit from cultivating soul?)
Are you aware that the amorphous quality of the images created
by this wet technique is intended to frustrate the child's ability to draw
(isis: I can tell you Waldorf kindergartens/schools are not about frustrating children. LOL! In the same way that some things are seen as more "adult" than others- say high heeled shoes- Steiner educators believe that with young children, the line can wait. When a child asks for a pen in a Waldorf kindergarten, for the teacher it is like she is asking for stiletto heels)
-- which Steiner purported were remnants of "past lives" and thus
should be done away with (except in form drawing, another spiritual science
-- Lisa Ercolano [/B][/QUOTE]
I suggest you all stick with the root race theory as your main point of criticism.