Zack makes a discovery in the search for Garibaldi. Delenn's plan to attack
the Shadows runs into trouble. Ivanova and Marcus attempt to solicit aid from
more First Ones.
Wayne Alexander as Lorien.
Wortham Krimmer as Emperor Cartagia.
Eric Zivot as Verano.
Jonathan Chapman as Ambassador Lethke.
P5 Rating: 8.66
Production number: 403
Original air week: November 18, 1996
DVD release date: January 6, 2004
Written by J. Michael Straczynski
Directed by John McPherson
- Lyta's telepathic abilities were enhanced by the Vorlons
to enable her to more easily carry one of them.
- The Vorlons, apparently determined to wipe the Shadows
out once and for all, have begun destroying worlds that have had
contact with the Shadows, and to that end have amassed a fleet of
thousands of ships.
- Sheridan has returned to Babylon 5, as has Garibaldi.
- Initially, when the Vorlons and Shadows took on the task
of looking after the younger races, they were equally balanced, obeyed
rules of engagement, and respected each other's perspectives. But at
some point, one of them grew tired of the arrangement and the two
started fighting in earnest, with the younger races caught in the
- Who, if anyone, was on the ship that carried Garibaldi's
lifepod? Why were they transporting him, and why did they
- What was done to Garibaldi? Was he implanted with a new
personality, like Talia Winters?
- What was the program that activated as Garibaldi's pod
- Why did Lorien accompany Sheridan?
- How did they get to Babylon 5? Was that Lorien's ship?
- What exactly did Lyta learn when she scanned Kosh?
- What exactly does Sheridan have in mind to end the war
once and for all?
- What happened to Marcus' family? His brother died in a
("Matters of Honor,")
but what about his parents?
- Delenn said, "Everyone I hold dear is gone." She didn't
list Lennier among them. Why not?
- Lyta says she allowed the Vorlons to modify her because
she believed. Believed in what? What did they tell her about their
intentions? Does she know anything about the Shadows and Vorlons,
and the nature of their conflict, that Sheridan would find useful?
- What made the Vorlons change their strategy? Most likely
it has something to do with the "unexpected door" they feel Sheridan
opened on Z'ha'dum
("The Hour of the Wolf.")
By attempting to wipe out the Shadows, it's arguable they've lost the
war on a philosophical level; attempting to wipe out a race to gain
supremacy is exactly the method the Shadows advocate.
On the other hand, if there's no way to get the Shadows to stop
fighting and causing wars except by completely destroying them, the
Vorlons may have reached the conclusion that the very existence of the
Shadows means their philosophy can never take hold.
- Given that the old Kosh, at least according to Lyta,
cared about the younger races, would he have approved of the Vorlons'
change in strategy? If not, will the piece of him still alive in
Sheridan try to stop the plan?
- Lyta referred to the old Kosh as "the real Kosh."
What isn't real about the new Kosh? What is the new Kosh's actual
name (or its human-pronounceable version?)
- Lorien's visit to B5 would seem to indicate that he, at
least, still cares about the younger races. What can
he do about it? Presumably he'll be able to provide valuable
information, but does he have any capabilities beyond that? For
example, does he have access to technology millions of years more
advanced than even the Shadows and Vorlons?
"Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?"
he appeared to have a significant presence on the "dream plane" (for
lack of a better term) through which Kosh sent the dreams to Sheridan in
"All Alone in the Night"
"Interludes and Examinations."
It's plausible that that's where much of a Vorlon's consciousness
lives; if so, Lorien may be capable of much more direct impact on the
Vorlons than his physical presence implies. Whether the same is true
in the Shadows' case is less clear, but the fact that the Eye at
Z'ha'dum found Ivanova while she was in the Great Machine
("Voices of Authority")
suggests that they too have some presence in that mode of existence.
- Destroying planets may seem excessive, but perhaps the
Vorlons are doing so, rather than simply wiping out all surface life,
because of the Shadows' habit of burying their ships underground
("Messages From Earth")
and building cities underground
They may feel that completely destroying a planet that's been visited
by the Shadows is the only way to ensure that there are no surprises
- Is the current Vorlon rampage due in part to the death
of the original Kosh at the hands of the Shadows? If so, there's a
parallel to the Earth-Minbari War, in which, according to Delenn
("Ceremonies of Light and Dark")
the Minbari went collectively mad after the death of their leader
Dukhat at human hands.
- By wiping out younger races as they battle the Shadows,
the Vorlons can no longer really claim to be looking after their
juniors. What will the other First Ones think of that? They don't
seem to be on particularly good terms with the Vorlons to begin with
("Voices of Authority")
and this change in attitude may further irritate their peers. Lorien
will likely be able to provide greater insight into the feelings of
the other First Ones toward the Vorlons.
- If the Vorlons are truly intent on wiping out any worlds
the Shadows have touched, that means they'll be targeting Mars,
Centauri Prime, Earth, and B5. Depending on how recently a planet
has to have had contact to be considered tainted, they may also
destroy Narn. Only the Minbari seem, so far, to have never been
under Shadow influence, so their homeworld may be spared.
The only evidence so far of Shadow influence is the assassination
attempt against Kosh in
but given that the Shadows didn't try to touch Kosh until the Vorlon
"Interludes and Examinations,"
the hallway meeting in
"Signs and Portents"
notwithstanding (Kosh initiated that confrontation too)
it's more likely the Minbari warriors were acting of their own
- The Vorlons' new tack is somewhat ironic, given that they
filed an official protest when the Centauri used mass drivers to
bombard Narn from space
("The Long, Twilight Struggle.")
Clearly the Vorlons don't have any qualms about attacking planets
from space if they're the ones doing it.
- Since the Shadows have already come to Centauri Prime,
could the blasted landscape of
"War Without End, Part Two"
be due to a Vorlon attack, not the doing of the Shadows? If the
Vorlons attack because of the Shadow presence, that would explain
Londo's bitterness toward Sheridan, who he might consider to be
on the side of the Vorlons.
- Does Sheridan share the Vorlons' goal of wiping the
Shadows out completely, or does he have some other plan in mind? The
fact that Lorien accompanied him suggests the latter, since Lorien
commented that he didn't approve of warfare among his juniors
("Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?")
On the other hand, his speech to the crowd did imply that he had
genocide against the Shadows in mind.
- The original Kosh tried to train Sheridan "to fight
But in his speech, Sheridan appeared to be setting himself up as a
legend of sorts: "the only man to come back from Z'ha'dum alive."
(A claim, incidentally, which isn't true; Morden and Anna were on
Z'ha'dum and left alive, if changed.) His bravado seems to indicate he
now sees himself as having a larger role to play than before, and
validates the Shadows' view of him as a nexus
"Interludes and Examinations,"
Sheridan pointed out to Kosh that the Vorlons were legends,
or wanted to be perceived as such. Did Kosh know that eventually
Sheridan might have to combat the Vorlons?
- Sheridan returned from Z'ha'dum under unknown
circumstances, accompanied by an alien he won't tell anyone about.
Garibaldi's whereabouts were unknown for two weeks, and he turned up in
a ship that self-destructed to avoid being closely investigated. Why,
then, do Delenn, Ivanova, and the others accept both of them back
seemingly without question? Given the threat of implanted
personalities and other modifications
the crew should at least be skeptical that both returnees are what they
- Sheridan's speech from the catwalk echoes his appearance
on the catwalk in the dream in
"All Alone in the Night."
If Garibaldi symbolized "the man in between," a description that fits
Lorien at least as well as anyone else, then was the Sheridan on the
catwalk "the man on the other side," presumably the other side of
death? If so, Sheridan has now become that man.
- G'Kar's refusal to scream was foreshadowed in
"The Parliament of Dreams."
In that episode, when he was put into paingivers by the Narn assassin
and tortured, he said he would rather die than cry out.
- Marcus has never been romantically involved with anyone.
This was hinted at in
"A Late Delivery From Avalon,"
in which he jokingly compared himself to Sir Galahad, the chaste knight
from Arthurian legend. In
"Ceremonies of Light and Dark,"
he told Delenn he'd lost a woman he cared a great deal for, but that's
not necessarily a contradiction; he didn't say she felt the same way.
- The scene in which Ivanova asks Delenn for one of the White
Star ships was originally written and filmed for
"Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi?"
but was cut from that episode for time.
- This is the first regular episode to feature all the cast
members listed in the opening credits; aside from
all the earlier episodes were missing at least one.
- G'Kar was whipped 39 times, because 40 would kill a Narn.
That's probably a reference to the Old Testament.
warns against whipping a man more than 40 times; more than that will
cause one to lose the respect of one's brothers.
Some renditions of the New Testament also show Jesus
being whipped 39 times by Pilate, though that number doesn't appear
in the Bible itself. The Apostle Paul was whipped 39 times, which
was the maximum number under Jewish law, to ensure that miscounting
wouldn't cause one to give more than 40 lashes.
- This is the second time Garibaldi has awakened from a
traumatic event and found his commanding officer missing; Sinclair
left the station while he was in a coma
- About Londo and Vir deferring to each other before
the G'Kar torture scene
It's the roller coaster theory: if you move someone to horror or fear or
shock from a neutral place, the emotional jump is less than if they're
laughing...then suddenly you whipsaw them into the absolute emotional
- A planet-busting weapon is so improbable as to be
more magic than technology.
Re: "magictech"...I believe it was Arthur C. Clarke who pointed out,
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
You wanna go argue with Clarke, feel free.
Lemme just make one point here. In the handful of decades between the
discovery of the atom, and its use at Hiroshima, we learned how to
blow up substantial portions of the planet and render it
uninhabitable. But it would've taken a lot of them, hundreds, to do
the job. In the 50 years since then, with the development of
thermonuclear weaponry, the job is even easier. It's been reckoned
that you'd only need about 75 really decent sized thermonuclear
detonations to render the entire continental United States dead and
The shadows and the vorlons are *millions* of years ahead of us.
We're talking differences in technology that are orders of magnitude
beyond what we can hope to comprehend.
I think a planet killer eminently achievable.
- If the Shadows and Vorlons are so far advanced, why
haven't the Shadows wiped everyone out already, including B5?
Because up until now, they haven't been out to destroy
everyone, that's not the point...you can't sow chaos if there's no one
around in which to sow that chaos. And they may have some ideas on how
B5 could be turned to their advantage....
- Bear in mind that the White Stars are partially based on
Vorlon technology, which is similar in strength to the Shadows. That
helps a lot. Also, other ships can have an influence in sufficient
numbers. Even a lion can be brought down by a sufficient number of
hyenas. The idea that higher technology always equals victory didn't
- I don't see it really as a change of heart...they've always
been very ruthless in their way. Remember, it was the Vorlons who
simply decided to off Deathwalker in first season.
There's some amount of escalation going on, obviously, which
will be explained a bit more in upcoming episodes, but they've always
been this way, it's your perception of them that's at odds. You fell
for what they wanted you to see them to be.
- Who's the worse enemy, the Shadows or the
Who is the greater foe?
It is always the one closest to where you live.
- About the original Kosh
Certainly he came to care about us more than the vorlons
- Kosh can keep secrets from Lyta when she's carrying
him. Can she do the same?
She can keep secrets a little...but not if he pushes.
- Was Sheridan's uniform different?
No, that's the funny thing...I've seen a number of posts about
how his uniform was changed, but it *wasn't*. It was exactly the same
outfit right out of the wardrobe closet...not sewn, not cleaned, just
dusted off a bit, by hand, the way he might've upon coming in. You can
clearly see that the sleeve is still torn as he's up there.
All I can figure is that the red Z'ha'dum lighting made it look
a lot worse than it was.
- Is Ivanova's hug a sign she's attracted to
No, it was just relief, letting her guard down, allowing
herself to feel, which she hadn't done much before this. There's no
romantic interest there. You can have situations where men and women
work together, and can care about one another, without it turning into
more than that.
Men seem to understand this less often than women.
- Sheridan seemed a lot more belligerent, and
seemed to be suggesting genocide against the Shadows.
Yup, I'd say it's very likely that some people close to Sheridan are
going to be wondering about his attitude...and maybe even acting on it.
- Someone should get outraged...and will. It's
simply a matter of picking the right time and place to *do* something
- Certainly there will be some people who will wonder
exactly the same thing you do, within the context of the show...and
wonder if Sheridan's gone too far, gotten too messianic in his
Ah, the fun never stops....