"The majority of them are now saying they adopted containers first … then some of them might have directly gone to Kubernetes at some point," Tushar Katarki, director of product management for OpenShift Core Platform at Red Hat, tells The Next Platform. "Now it's all good. 'We get the application portability, we get the agility with containers and Kubernetes. We can optimize our resources, we get to deploy it on various clouds. But now we have a proliferation of this. We have had some good success with this. So that means I have to scale everything. I have to scale my clusters. I have to scale the number of users. I have to scale the number of applications. I have to scale our operations.' We have been on this journey to help with that. … 'How do I scale operations? How do I scale applications? How do onboard more applications in this so-called digital transformation and modernization in more cloud-native apps?'"